Covenant Life: A Family on a Mission

The Spirituality of the Church

• Covenant Life Church • Episode 6

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Accompanied by several book recommendations, Robin covers the points that didn’t make the cut for his Sunday sermon, along with some insights on sermon application. He also "nerds out" about grammar and recites some scripture in Hebrew for us.

Alyssa:

Welcome to A Family on a Mission. This is a podcast from Covenant Life Church where we discuss the sermon from the previous Sunday. This week I'll sit down with Robin and we'll discuss his message on Philippians 2, 1-4, titled Unity Through Humility Advances the Gospel. So grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation. Robin, thank you very much for joining me today.

Robin:

It's my pleasure.

Alyssa:

Glad to have you. My first question for you is was there anything that you wanted to include in your sermon on Sunday but maybe didn't have time for, or actually just decided not to include?

Robin:

Yeah, there is. Yeah, there is. Actually, I'd like to begin just by saying, with all the sadness and heartache going on in the world at the moment, I think it's worth reflecting on the death of a very important person, which almost went unnoticed last week in Altoona, at the age of 33, Larry Reprise, the man who wrote the song the Hokey Pokey, died peacefully in his sleep. The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the casket though. They put his left foot in, and that's when the trouble began. I wasn't able to get that in the sermon. I didn't think it fit.

Alyssa:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sad you didn't. I think the congregation would h ave loved that. I was gonna to say... 33?

Robin:

Well he was 83.

Alyssa:

O h okay

Robin:

83, and actually I don't know if that really happened last week or not.

Alyssa:

Oh sure, Well, thanks for sharing.

Robin:

Can you ask your question again? Because I've already forgotten it.

Alyssa:

I absolutely can. Was there anything in your sermon that you had wanted to include but didn't have time for? Or maybe just decided not to include other than refe rencing the guy who wrote the Hokey Pokey?

Robin:

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I had wrestled a little bit with whether to end the sermon with a discussion of some unity killers. Now this is a passage of Scripture that talks about unity in the church, unity through humility, that that advances the gospel, and I had thought about some application issues and I touched on it a little bit when I began with talking about the mission of the church being the advance of the gospel, and it was kind of on my mind to talk about things that threatened the unity in our present moment. And I am serious when I'm talking about this.

Robin:

In particular, political and cultural issues. I think I may have said in the sermon something that I've said before Are political issues important? Yes, are they all important? No. Are cultural issues important? Yes, are they all important? No, what is all important is the gospel. That's the mission that we have been given to us. It's the mission given to the church, and if we do anything, this is what we have to do.

Robin:

So I thought of ending the sermon by talking, maybe in a little bit more detail about that, but then I decided not to, because I wanted to leave the congregation with what emphasis the text itself had, which was on the unity of the church and not necessarily on specific things that threatened that unity. So you know, in a podcast like this, we're able to do something like that. And maybe I should set it up by talking about a very important doctrine that is not talked about much and little understood. It's called the doctrine of the spirituality of the church. And this doctrine has been around fo r a while. What it is saying in essence is that the mission that Christ has given to the church is a spiritual mission. It has to do with eternal issues. And while it doesn't say the church should have nothing to do with political or cultural issues, the doctrine of the spirituality of the church so emphasizes the mission that we have to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them, and so then the church can go on to glorify God through that gospel advancement. Now, obviously, there are issues going on all the time, and this has been true throughout the entire history of the church. When the church loses sight of this ultimate mission, it runs the risk of becoming eccentric or losing its focus and failing to fulfill what God wants us to fulfill. So in our present moment, these are—and it's always been a big deal for the church.

Robin:

One of the things that you know you'll hear me talk about is reading the classics, which Mark Twain defined a classic as a book everyone wants to have read, but no one wants to read. Well, one of the great classics, especially of Christian literature, is Augustine's City of God. So over the last eight years I've read it twice and I've studied it somewhat in depth. And if you read the City of God, which I think everyone should read, you'll find it to be in many ways an extremely tedious read. It's not a lot of fun, but I think it's very important. I'll give you a little context for it and then make some comments about it.

Robin:

Augustine read the City of God as an apologetic or a defense of the Christian church following something that happened in 410 AD and that was the sack of Rome. Alaric and the Goths sacked the City of Rome, which had never happened before. It had never been threatened like that, and this was the Roman Empire's 9-11. In other words, this changed everything for the Roman Empire. Now they realized how vulnerable they were and the question was why has this happened? The Roman Empire had been around for a long time, Rome itself even before it was an empire, the Republic, etc. You're talking about a thousand years of Rome. Now what's going on? And one of the reasons that was put forth that Rome was suffering this great humiliation was because of the Christians. They have left off worshiping the national historic gods of Rome and because of that those gods are angry. And now it's because of these Christians that we're finding all this bad stuff happening. Augustine wrote this work to counter that, and in so doing he put forth the idea that's sometimes been called political realism, but what he's really talking about here is a Christian philosophy of history. So, without getting too much into the weeds, I'll just make a few comments about it and then try to maybe talk about our present day a little bit.

Robin:

Augustine said that the sack of Rome was not a world-changing event. The fall of man was a world-changing event. The incarnation of Christ, his death and resurrection, were changing events. Augustine is urging an attitude toward things like 9-11 or the sack of Rome that's neither nostalgic nor apocalyptic. So he's urging a kind of political realism that puts things in their proper place.

Robin:

Things that are going on in our culture today political upheaval, the swings that we've had in administrations over the past 10 years or so have got a lot of people, you know, suffering whiplash and a lot of people were very upset. But we have to keep it in perspective. These are not world-changing events. Are they important? Yes, are they all important? No, the gospel of Christ is what is all important. If we keep our eye on the ball, we'll be able to manage the changes that take place in our culture with some balance and some equanimity and we'll be able to maintain the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace.

Robin:

I can't remember if I said this in my class on medieval history last Sunday or not, but some of the things that we've gone through over the last 10 years have been really upsetting and have got a lot of people really worked up, and it reminds me of the 60s, because now I just turned 75. I came of age in the 60s and there were a lot of similarities with some of the things going on, especially around COVID and Black Lives Matter and some of the riots and things that were taking place. That reminded me of the 60s, but in the 60s we had assassinations In addition. So there's really nothing new under the sun. What's going to help us, as Christians, maintain our balance is understanding the history of the church, the history of the world, and that what's going on right now, while very important, we have to meet it with Christian values and Christian faith and Christian confidence, not triumphalism, but just a sober view is going to be keeping the gospel central, and I do think that a study of history is really helpful for maintaining our balance.

Robin:

So those are some general things that I can say, and I can get more specific if you'd like, but this, oh, I think I'll mention one other thing, well, actually a couple things. This doctrine of the spirituality of the church. It's been put in a nice little form by a church history professor named Alan Strange, just like it sounds strange, and the book is called Empowered Witness. I think we have it. If we don't, it's worth a read because it puts forth this doctrine of the spirituality of the church, and I think it'd be very helpful going a little bit deeper than the little booklet that we have recommended by Jonathan Lehman.

Alyssa:

And I think Philip just said it's on its way to the bookstore, so it should be in there soon.

Robin:

There's another book by our friend, Scott Redd, who is the president of Reform Theological Seminary here in the DC area, and Scott has been to speak at our church. His book called the Wholeness Imperative. I'll just read something that Scott wrote in this book, just a little excerpt. Talking about the Lord Jesus Christ. Talking about the Lord Jesus Christ. And at the time Jesus walked the earth, the Jewish people were looking for a Messiah of the King David type that was going to come militarily and kick the butts of the Romans and reestablish the Davidic kingdom. And Scott writes what seemed to be the Jewish community's sole hope lay in this mysterious character called Messiah, or, in Greek, Christ. And Scott writes from slavery and oppression.

Robin:

In light of their dire situation, it is perhaps understandable that many Jewish interpreters anticipated this Messiah as a military commander, a hardened and skillful warrior who would right the wrongs of the Roman occupiers and inaugurate a kingdom of justice and peace, ruled from the capital city of Jerusalem and thrown beside the temple of the living God. Jesus understood this messianic expectation of the people. He understood that the Jewish people of his day, like people of any time period, had a hard time seeing past their own immediate political and cultural realities. But he also knew that he was the true Messiah, that he was the great king deliverer, but not the sort of deliverer they anticipated. His objective was not to rule a small plot of real estate on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean. His enemies were not the Roman soldiers nor corrupt local governors. He had bigger fish to fry. He was about the work of overthrowing the enemy trifecta of the human race Satan, sin and death.

Robin:

Very well stated, in my opinion. Jesus had his eye on the ball, and it would be good if we had our eye on the ball too. So we're not looking for a Christian nation. There really never has been such a thing, and anyone that's expecting the Christian church to be anything more than a significant minority in the world is bound to be disappointed. We've been given a task, and our task is the proclamation of the gospel. To make disciples of all nations, not just our own, and I speak as someone who is patriotic. I mean I love our nation. My father lost a leg for this nation. I still tear up sometimes when I hear the national anthem. So I think it's very proper and appropriate for us to be good citizens of the kingdom, of whatever nation we're in, but our citizenship in the kingdom of God is of a higher degree and we need to always keep that in mind.

Alyssa:

Yeah, that's great. That's really helpful. Are there any other you know, insights that you can share with us? Or maybe, before we started recording, you and I were talking a little bit about application and how much to include different application points in your sermons and stuff like that. Can you just kind of yeah?

Robin:

Yeah, my sermon was light on application. I mean, I talked with Claire a little bit about how does this kind of humility and putting others first work out in our lives? And she just said I think it's in the little decisions we make, the little decisions of serving instead of selfishness. And then I thought about, you know, letting the guy merge in, even if he's been driving up the shoulder. You know we're all waiting in traffic as traffic merges together. And then you've got somebody driving up the shoulder and you know wants to cut in.

Robin:

Well, ok, why don't you let him? It's what? What's it going to hurt? You know that sort of thing, and not even grudging service like that, but taking the initiative to let the little brother have the last piece of pie. You know, when I think about things like this I realize, oh okay, in my old age there's hope for me because I was going to be the first to grab that piece of pie and feel absolutely righteous in doing it. But the older I get, the more I realize you know, is that really what's important?

Robin:

Humility is not me trying to feel bad about myself, but me putting others before myself. So how do you do that? I mean, I could have thought perhaps and done a better job of talking about that in marriage and in the workplace and at school. But I'll tell you a little bit of the history of our church. This is a church that has always put a premium on not just knowing the truth but applying the truth, and there was a time when virtually every sermon that was preached ended with some specific application points, and there's nothing wrong with that, uh. But I will say that over time, those application points that were suggested by the preacher, uh, took on such a character as to almost overwhelm the text. As a result, there was a move away from specific application. What I mean is this If I'm up there as a preacher and I'm suggesting application for this, because pastors and preachers are held in such high esteem, the thought often with people is that, wow, whatever he's doing, that's what I need to do. Well, maybe, but maybe not Putting a pastor or a preacher up on a pedestal so that his way of applying things should be the way that everybody applies them. I just don't think that's really healthy in the long run.

Robin:

So there was a move away from specific application, so that people would hear the message and then know that they've got to talk to God about how this should work out in their own lives. In other words, we as individual members of the congregation have a job to do, to talk to the Lord about how he wants us to implement truth, and I think that's really good, really important. Well, that then the pendulum can swing to the point where nothing is said about application and the passage is left in a conceptual state, maybe some kind of an abstract state, where people don't have any thought about what to do at all. I guess there's a happy medium, and I think it's the job of the preacher to seek the Lord on what he does or doesn't say with regard to application. So anyway, just like an individual, a church goes through growth, starts out in its infancy and gets into middle age, and it's just like. Just like anything, I guess, and so you learn from making mistakes on both sides.

Alyssa:

Yeah, yeah, that's great, that's really helpful and very yeah, it's cool to see how kind of you think about that and everything. Yeah, all right, so this would be our section where we would have some questions from the congregation. We didn't get any this week, unfortunately, so Take this as a reminder that if anyone has any questions at all about the sermon or really anything, please send them in to podcast at covelifeorg. We typically record on Tuesdays, so if you can send it in before the Tuesday of the week that the sermon was preached, that would be great.

Robin:

Can I say some nerdy stuff about conditional sentences?

Alyssa:

Oh sure.

Robin:

Because the text was a conditional sentence, right? You know, if the weather's nice on Monday, I will, then I will play, if then sentences I love this kind of stuff. This is grammar and syntax and sentence form. This is where I live.

Robin:

I really like this stuff. The word for the if part of a conditional sentence is called the protesis, and the word for the then part of a conditional sentence is called the apotesis. Isn't that cool? Yeah, the protesis and the apodesis, the if and the then. Now, that's the kind of thing that you can't say when you're preaching or people are going to think what is he doing? It's like when you say the Greek word is blah, blah, blah. And I'll say one other thing how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity. Hinei mattov, u'mah nahim shevet, achim gam yachad. So I don't want to impress people by saying it in Hebrew, but I want to impress the listeners of this podcast, because you are the true scholars of the church that go deeply into things and listen to nerdy podcasts. And all of this stuff is there. For what is there? A half dozen of us, but maybe more than that.

Alyssa:

Surely there's more.

Robin:

But there's a lot of stuff that we get to do in ministering the word. That is really it's very cool and we really enjoy it.

Alyssa:

Yeah, well, for what it's worth. I love it when you guys include you know this is what the original text said and whatever. I think that's so I don't. Yeah, I think that's awesome.

Robin:

Yeah, you know to be clear about it. If there's a reason for including something like that, we will. But the whole purpose of preaching is to represent what the Holy Spirit has given us in Scripture, to represent it in a way that will bring glory to God and benefit to the people, not something that'll scratch an itch that I have, but I like to have my itches scratched.

Alyssa:

There you go, there you go, all right. Well, with that, we're going to move on to our next section, which is Fun Facts with Philip, and today we have the very man himself, philip Martin, to give us a fun fact. So welcome Philip.

Philip:

Hi Robin hey.

Robin:

Philip, I call him Phil. Thank you, ernest, I call him Phil.

Philip:

Oh, thank you, Ernest. I appreciate that You're currently teaching a church history class, and so I thought, for today's fun fact, we would give you a quiz and see if you are qualified to teach this church history class. Uh-oh, so I'm going to start with an easy one. We have three questions, and if you get two out of three right, you get the church staff member of your choice's voice on your home answering machine. Oh, wow. So yesterday many people celebrated St Patrick's Day. Why is March?

Robin:

17th, the day that it is observed.

Philip:

I have no idea and any guesses, it's the Ides of March. That's the 14th. That's the 14th, yeah, or the 15th, 15th, 15th, it's the day that Patrick died, traditionally. Oh, we don't know when he was born, but the traditional account is that he died on March 17th, so that's why we celebrate that, oh.

Philip:

So now you, but the traditional account is that he died on March 17th, so that's why we celebrate that. Oh so, now you know, yeah, that's great, all right, you still got two more. Okay, so these ones are stretching back. Well, all three of these questions go back pretty far in church history, so this year is 2025. What important church document is celebrating its 1,700th anniversary this year?

Robin:

1,700th.

Philip:

What church document has been around now for 1,700 years, as of 2025?

Robin:

I'm afraid I can't do the math in my head. Okay, what year? 325. Oh, okay, yeah, that was the Nicene Council and the beginning of the Nicene Creed.

Philip:

Right. So it was in May or June of 325, the council was gathered and they produced a document, and it wasn't until 381 that it was formally accepted by the second.

Robin:

Nicene Council, constantinople, yeah.

Philip:

So we'll give you that one, we'll give you number two. So it all comes down to the third question. We talked about March 17th. Now what happened on March 18th in church history? And the hint is that it happened in the year 1123 in the city of Rome. I don't know. Well, this is. I would be very surprised if you did know. It was the first Lateran council. So now, robin, what was the first Lateran council? Because I don't know, and I was hoping maybe our church history professor could tell us.

Robin:

Yeah, I don't know about the first Lateran council. I know the fourth Lateran council and I was hoping maybe our church history professor could tell us. Yeah, I don't know about the First Lateran Council, I know the Fourth Lateran Council. Why were they called Lateran? Because in Rome I think it was the church of St John Lateran where the council was held. What did they do? Well, in the councils of the church they established canon law. Sometimes, you know, creeds were. I mean, there are a lot of councils in the church. The great ecumenical councils are usually considered to be the first four, but there were many besides that. And in the Middle Ages the whole idea of councils eventually got supplanted by the arose between popes. The conciliar movement. The idea that councils should also have authority came back to the fore, and that was taking place in the late Middle Ages. So yeah, anyway.

Philip:

Well, there you have it, one out of three. So no, no voice on your answering machine.

Philip:

Okay, well, that's, that's fine, yeah, you came up with some obscure questions, but that was the goal that was the goal, you, you succeeded, yeah and if anybody wants to celebrate the 17th 100th anniversary of the Nicene Creed, there's a conference being held at Springfield Church, in Emanuel Church in Springfield, virginia oh, is that where you heard about that? Yeah, in a couple weeks, so we're going to talk about the Trinity for two days. That's great. That's great. Well, there you have it, and that is Fun Facts with Philip great you can say goodbye to the people.

Alyssa:

Sign off you're going to have to come back thanks so much for listening to this week's episode of A Family on a Mission, and thank you to Robin and Phillip for joining us again. Remember, we would love for you to be a part of this conversation, so please send your questions to podcast at covelifeorg. We will see you next week, thank you.